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Why Now Is The Best Time To Be An Online Musician featuring Leah McHenry

On this episode of the Singing Success Show, you’ll learn:

  • The difference between a Record Deal and Doing It Yourself!
  • how to make sure you’re not deceived by contracts from labels…
  • why you MUST become an online musician and be in charge of where you want to go
  • how to create an artist identity
  • and much more..

Fast-Track Your Success!!

VIP Membership includes:

  • Exclusive Facebook Group
  • Interact with our vocal coaches–ask them YOUR question
  • Live warmups
  • Masterclasses and Q&As with Brett Manning and his guests
  • SS360 QuickStart Program
  • SS360 – The FULL Systematic Vocal Course
  • Vocal Hacks
  • Range Builder
  • Mastering Mix
  • Mastering Harmony
  • Mastering Vibrato
  • Vocal Therapy
  • Plus…exclusive content only found here all along the way!

You can struggle on your own, or you can get direct access to the Nashville Coaches who have launched some of the biggest names in the music industry.

Unlock Your Success
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How To Phase Out Your Day Job and Start Working On Your Music Career Full Time (Part 2)

Part 2 of this series on how to start working full-time on your music career focuses on why you must treat music as your day job, various types of carriers, and why you may need to do a little bit of everything before you find exactly what you want to do long term.

Fast-Track Your Success!!

VIP Membership includes:

  • Exclusive Facebook Group
  • Interact with our vocal coaches–ask them YOUR question
  • Live warmups
  • Masterclasses and Q&As with Brett Manning and his guests
  • SS360 QuickStart Program
  • SS360 – The FULL Systematic Vocal Course
  • Vocal Hacks
  • Range Builder
  • Mastering Mix
  • Mastering Harmony
  • Mastering Vibrato
  • Vocal Therapy
  • Plus…exclusive content only found here all along the way!

You can struggle on your own, or you can get direct access to the Nashville Coaches who have launched some of the biggest names in the music industry.

Unlock Your Success

Brett Manning  00:09
Hey, everyone! Welcome to the Singing Success Show Podcast. I am your host, Brett Manning. This is my co-host. 

Dustin Small  00:17
Hey, guys. Dustin Small here again. 

Brett Manning  00:19
And what’s the title of our show today?

Dustin Small  00:21
I think we’re just doing part two on how to phase out your day job.

Brett Manning  00:25
Ah. And move into your music career. 

Dustin Small  00:28
Yes. 

Brett Manning  00:28
It’s funny because we were really jumping into part two right then and there. We knew it was going to be a longer podcast because the things that we had to say were pretty intense. You’re talking about changing your whole life. That’s a pretty big decision. 

00:44
I’ve got to tell you, there’s a place that you and I know that’s one of my favorite little spots called Urban Market. The owner said: “I’m thinking about knocking out this wall” and taking out this great, big, huge loan. It’s online so you can see what people are paying to open up a new restaurant. You had to take out a million-dollar loan for that. I said, “Yes, dude, do it!” It’s really irresponsible of me to tell him that. “Here, take the risk! Oh, I love it. It’s a great restaurant. Go ahead. You’ll make it.” And boy, what did he bite off? A lot. And he’s doing it, and it’s doing well.

Dustin Small  01:24
It’s incredible what they did with the space. 

Brett Manning  01:25
Oh, it’s incredible. It’s two and a half times the size of the restaurant. It went from 2,500 square feet to 7,000. It’s almost triple the size. It’s an amazing health food restaurant-café store. 

01:43
So when we’re telling you things, it reminds me of talking to that guy and telling him: “Yes! Take the risk! Take the chance.” Well, it’s easy for you to say. You have no risk of telling somebody. When we’re telling you to take a risk and have a music career—man, I don’t want to ruin anybody’s life. 

Dustin Small  01:59
Sure. You gauge it against your own experience, of course. 

Brett Manning  02:02
Yes. You’ve heard people say: “Don’t go to college. Just do this.” Wow. Telling a person not to go to college is pretty hefty. 

Dustin Small  02:09
It’s a terrible generalization.

Brett Manning  02:10
It is. At the same time, some people are better off not going to college. And some people are like: “You should have went to college because you don’t have a skill set and you’re kind of lost in this industry.” And there is a time to tap out when you realize nobody gives a crap about your singing. If you have good enough friends, good enough connections in the industry, and a good enough coach—you can see the before and after—and you start singing ♪ The greatest love of all is easy to achieve ♪ [sings in mocking voice] three years later, you haven’t gotten any better. 

02:55
And if your ears are so deceived that you can’t hear the difference between good singing and bad singing, self-deception is horrible. And you’ve heard of people who’ve gone from “Man, this person can’t sing” to “What happened? You’re awesome!” And then you’ve also heard of people who [you feel like saying this to]: “You have been at this for a long time, man. Just sing karaoke. It’s okay to realize you don’t have any gift.”

Dustin Small  03:27
Yes. Sometimes the industry is not where an artist is supposed to be.

Brett Manning  03:31
It’s true. You can still enjoy music. You don’t have to have a career. So that’s important. And this leads us to what we’re talking about today in this part two. 

Dustin Small  03:44
Various types of careers, essentially. What you’re saying is that we’re giving options based on our experience, like you mentioned earlier, of various things you can do to keep the inspiration alive and to keep yourself in front of the right people. But also knowing when it might be the right time to tap out. So we’re going to go into that a little bit.

Brett Manning  04:10
If you realize that “man, nothing’s really happening,” you make some covers on YouTube. You have to start with covers, because people don’t know you. They don’t know your songs.

Dustin Small  04:19
Unfortunately, that’s kind of where we are right now. You have to play the game to be noticed sometimes.

Brett Manning  04:25
Yes. You get noticed because somebody else has already been noticed. It’s basically advertising yourself with somebody else’s song, and they see a cover. Hopefully, you do a really good job of it. And people comment. Some people are really mean-spirited, no matter how good you are. Pavarotti got 1.2 million thumbs up on one of his versions of “Nessun Dorma” and 46,000 thumbs down. How do you do that to Pavarotti? That’s 46,000 rotten, horrible, ignorant, belligerent people to ever give him a thumbs down! So realize that when some people hate you, it ain’t real. 

05:03
And then realize that if nobody loves your music and nobody’s paying attention to you, you can listen to see how far they’ve gone. There are analytics that show you how far they’ve listened to your song. If they only listen to the first line, and you’ve gotten so many plays… I think it doesn’t register plays unless they get close to the end of the song, if I’m correct. I know they have changed it up through the years. But if you have that, and people are just not listening to it, you end up buying some ad space. You’ve spent $30. You go through some company that says, “We’re going to do $30 every couple weeks,” and you can’t get 1,000 views still, then just nobody cares. And that’s a horrible thing to face. 

05:50
We will talk about that a little bit. No, we’ll talk about that in the next one: “No Guts, No Glory”. So make sure you tune into episode 6 as we talk about no guts, no glory, because there are people who have been rejected over and over and over who still made it. So that’s that X-factor situation where you think, “This person shouldn’t have made it,” and they still do. So there is always that perspective. 

06:20
But this leads us back to different careers. You’re a YouTube artist. Fine. You’ve got a little bit of attention. People like you. That’s great. You’re not making any money, but you’re having fun. And it’s not all about making money. You play in local coffee shops. That’s great. Local restaurants. That’s great. Singing for weddings. That’s fine. You have some kind of career. You’re doing it, not making it. You’re doing it.

Dustin Small  06:43
You’re out there connecting, at least. 

Brett Manning  06:45
Yes. Experiencing it. Let’s talk about those various levels of careers a little bit.

Dustin Small  06:53
I think starting with the connection is the most important thing. Is your music connecting? Chances are, if nobody cares about it, as you mentioned earlier, it’s because you haven’t found your individual voice and you haven’t found a way to connect with your audience. Isn’t that really why we’re all here anyway? 

Brett Manning  07:16
Right. People just want relationships. 

Dustin Small  07:18
Sure. In your experience, you could probably speak at some length about how to translate simple songs, whether they’re just covers or something you’ve written, into meaningful performances and connections.

Brett Manning  07:35
This leads me to another thing: What if you’re just a good songwriter and somebody else sings your songs better than you?

Dustin Small  07:41
Well, there is this town… 

Brett Manning  07:44
Called, um, “NashVegas” or something like that? Yes. Someplace in middle Tennessee. 

Dustin Small  07:49
Music City, USA. We just happen to be here right now. This town was built on people just like you who decided to lend their hand and allow artists to take their music somewhere else. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, those people are generally prospering more than the artists these days.

Brett Manning  08:08
It’s true. It’s true. There are people who are supporting the artists. Launching one artist takes so many moving parts. And if you do it yourself… And we’re going to talk about that. We’ll have her on as a guest, she talks about doing it yourself. We’re going to have Rick Barker on, and we’re going to have Leah McHenry—these people who understand how to show others how to build their own careers. And we’re also going to talk with Leah McHenry, who was able to make $200,000 a year while being a homeschooling mother of five kids.

Dustin Small  08:40
And talk about a success story—if you want to define your own version of success—which is a huge topic in and of itself.

Brett Manning  08:48
Right. Hence the reason why we did a whole other part two on this—”How to Phase Out Your Day Job”—is that there are various types of careers. Let me ask you this right now. I’ve never asked you this. If your life and music career could resemble anybody… If I were a genie…  You rub the lamp and I pop out, “Yes, what do you want?” You say, “I would like this.” What would that career look like?

Dustin Small  09:23
I guess the first person that comes to mind, being that I’m generally known as a drummer in town, would have to be Dave Grohl. Obviously, I didn’t come up in a lot of the rock and roll stuff, even though I played in rock bands in high school and stuff like that. I’m generally a rock music fan. But just how his career has played out since the early Nirvana days and stuff like that. If I could be associated with one or two mainstream iterations and then just be the guy who sits back and kind of jumps in: “Oh, I like what you’re doing. I’d like to be a part of that if that’s okay.” Or “I’d like to produce.” Or “I’d like to help you guys in the writing process” or something like that. I don’t necessarily need to be the name or face of anything in that regard. But it would be nice to have something hefty to hang your hat on to give people a chance to really care and dig into your body of work, as we were talking about previously. They don’t care until you make them care.

Brett Manning  10:34
That’s right. And look at how definitive you are. People have asked me, “What would you do if you knew you couldn’t fail?” I said, “Man, I’d write film scores.” And I’ve said this for a long time. You and I were talking about it. That would be part of my career.

Dustin Small  10:50
Yes. It’s a good example of something very lucrative and fulfilling. Do you know who scored the last movie that you watched? 

Brett Manning  11:00
I don’t know. 

Dustin Small  11:01
Does it really matter? 

Brett Manning  11:02
No.

Dustin Small  11:03
They’re doing what they love and they’re reaping the benefits of it. 

Brett Manning  11:06
Yes. Sometimes we know when we see James Horner. We’re like, “Oh, that guy,” or John Williams, “Oh, that guy.” You understand that there are certain styles that are very identifiable, and then you can pick up little clues from them and adapt your career to that. This is when I say: “What kind of career do you want? Who does it resemble?” You’re going to build on the backs of people who’ve done it before you. 

11:32
Bach had two sons who were composers—one influenced Mozart and one influenced Beethoven. Without Bach, you don’t get Mozart and you don’t get Beethoven. Arguably, without Bach having two sons who were composers… I think he only had 10 kids or something like that. Lots of kids. Lots of kids. Very busy—he and his wife. [laughter] Very busy. And the greatest composer of all time. 

11:59
The first pianist to use the thumb. They played all melodies like this: [plays brief melody on piano]. A lot of those Gregorian chants style. And he made everything equally tempered, so every note was equally spaced, and said, “Now you can change keys while you’re in the middle of a piece.” 

Dustin Small  12:21
How did I not know this?

Brett Manning  12:22
When you hear the piece [plays brief melody on piano], that key change happened because of them. Or [plays brief melody on piano]. All those notes are normally not in the song because he wrote music that could just change keys again and again and again. You all know this one, [plays melody on piano], Bach Prelude no. 1. It’s still the same key, right? It’s the ♪ Ave Maria, gratia plena, gratia plena ♪. 

13:13
Boy, I haven’t played it for a while. Now, my son plays it perfectly. I keep screwing up Bach. I can’t sing and play at the same time. It’s so hard. But it just keeps changing keys. Then, all of a sudden, it goes from this G thing to G diminished. [plays melody briefly on piano]. And then F. What is it? And then to an F diminished. And then you’ve got all these diminished chords. To do a double-diminished chord means you’re leaving the key. But he was the first musician to do that and to influence. 

13:54
So when you think you’re a singer or a musician who has found your own sound and has not been influenced by somebody, you are an onion. Every year, people come to me and they say: “Brett, I need to peel away all my prescribed identities—my religious, my philosophical, and my cultural prescribed identities. I need to find out who I am as an artist. My education and all my influences—I have too many influences. I need to peel away and find out who I am as an artist.” And I say: “Peel away, son. You’re an onion. Ain’t nobody home.” You are everything you’ve ever come into contact with. Yet you want to throw away all those influences?

Dustin Small  14:39
Sure. It’s almost like you’re just too focused on the minutiae. Just incorporating the thumbs changed everything about being able to create melodies. So what is your thumb incorporating into your artistry?

Brett Manning  14:56
Right. You lean on Bach. Do you know who influenced Bach? This guy. This one: [plays brief melody on piano] Pachelbel’s Canon. Pachelbel influenced Bach. I’m sure you’ve always listened to that. He goes: [plays brief melody on piano]. It’s a kid’s song, almost. But it’s beautiful. Stunning. Every wedding, you’re like, “Pachelbel’s Canon!” 

Dustin Small  15:40
My wife walked down the aisle with it.

Brett Manning  15:43
Did she? It’s a tradition. Or you could do the thing where you’re dancing and you come down and everybody’s doing that. And it was kind of cool for a little bit—these little cheesy auto-tune pop songs. It’s fun. If you did that, it’s cool. It’s charming. We all cried the first time we saw it. But Pachelbel’s Canon, man…

Dustin Small  16:00
It became timeless from something very simple.

Brett Manning  16:02
Yes. And you build on greatness. Somebody said to me: “I like to be very random with my chords.” She’s going: [plays brief melody on piano and sings in mock tone]. This is awful.

Dustin Small  16:24
It brings us back to the beginning: What’s connecting to your audience in the first place? Are you making music for yourself or are you making music for other people?

Brett Manning  16:32
Yes. And sometimes creativity is just sitting on one chord. Do you know about Keith’s song? ♪ This is my one chord song ♪. 

Dustin Small  16:39
Yes.

Brett Manning  16:32
He sits there on a guitar. The problem with the piano is that you can’t strum it. You can’t strum a piano. But he’s going:

♪ It’s my one chord song, I hope it don’t last too long, see I’d be stuck for eternity in the key of G, now I could sing like there’s another chord, but you say there’s only one chord in that song ♪

17:12
The first time he played that for me, I just died. Somebody said, “You should be able to write a song with two chords.” He goes, “I can write that song in one chord.”

17:21
There used to be a show called Name That Tune and they’d play three notes and boom, they could name that tune. Sometimes they’d say, “I can name that tune in one note.” How? [presses G on the piano] ♪ My love ♪ Wrong, because it could be anything that starts on a G. But two notes in rhythm… And here, look what he did. Something so simple. That  “One Chord Song”—people freak out every time he plays it.

Dustin Small  17:48
Chances are, he did that for someone else. Why would you write a song with one chord anyway? Just to connect.

Brett Manning  17:55
To make a point. How much melody can you dig out of one chord? When you are creating, you become an asset to yourself. Anybody who is creative will always have a job. If you are creative, you will always have a job. How do you know you’re creative? When people like what you create.

Dustin Small  18:26
Sure. If it’s all black and white and anybody can do your job, then you’re interchangeable with whoever else just so happens to have that same skill set.

Brett Manning  18:35
That’s right. Let’s go into that first. What are the levels of careers? There’s the level of career where you’re just a YouTube artist. A stay-at-home artist. You’re a touring artist. You’re drumming for somebody and singing backup vocals for people. You’re a studio producer. You’re a studio musician. Maybe you’re a studio musician. You’re an artist. You’re a writer. You’re a producer. You’ve done all of those things. Everything. I’ve done all those things, except that I can barely keep a beat on the drums. 

Dustin Small  19:03
It’s okay; we’ll work on it.

Brett Manning  19:04
All right, you’ll teach me. But I can play drum tracks. I can track it out because I can beatbox a rhythm. If I can do that, eventually I should be able to play. But we’ve done so many different things that all contribute to the overall value and net worth as viable artists or musicians working in the industry. We have met people who have done fantastic things.

19:33
There’s a keyboardist here who played for one of the biggest rock bands of all time. I don’t see hardly any work coming out of him. But he is a legend. And I respect him. I would probably bow down if I met him. [He’d be] like: “Come on, get up. I’m only a man.” “Sorry, I just can’t help it. Your music has changed my life.” And you hear one of his little rhythms and you’re like: “Oh, you did that on the keyboard?” I’m not going to mention his name because he’s not working a whole lot now. He still does some work. He has a place and he produced one of my students and did a brilliant job. But it’s hard enough to actually have a career. The energy you must use to find a career and to build a career, you must always use to sustain a career. 

20:25
It’s like getting in shape. You don’t get in shape; you stay in shape. It’s your lifestyle and you’re always trying to do something new. You’re always hearing me; what’s my new thing? My new thing is those yoga push-ups where you do the banana push-ups—downward dog, upward dog. And it works your shoulders out. I do those in the morning. They’re Indian push-ups. From India, not American Indian, which is Native American. But I do those push-ups. They’re hard! I can do 100 push-ups at any time, but I do 10 of those and then it’s hard to do 10 regular push-ups.

Dustin Small  21:02
Finding the variation in something mundane and repetitive before that changes the entire perspective and outlook on your creativity and your workflow.

Brett Manning  21:14
Well said. You’re always so concise. But yes, exactly. That’s what happened. For me, if I don’t innovate… You have to innovate, you have to create and you have to reconstruct what you think is great or you’re dead. This industry will leave you fast. I know producers who are trying to produce some of my students and head-hunting them hardcore. And she says, “Should I work with this guy?” That old saying, “What have you done lately?” Because that’s all that matters—that you’ve done something lately. “And he wants to experiment with you? Okay, good. Tell him, ‘You get one track for free.'” “Really? For free?” “Yes. And you get a percentage of that.” 

22:04
A little side note for you people: If you’re ever hiring a producer—and I’ll probably bring this up in future podcasts, because you can’t hear this too much—don’t ever pay a producer 100% upfront. Make them work for it. Half upfront, half at the end. I always do that and I always get my product. Because he’s got all his money, and now he’s paying off a debt. He’s working off a debt. He’s enslaved.

Dustin Small  22:28
We can probably go more in detail on that on a later podcast because I think we’re going to talk about when a record deal is right or not right for you at a particular point in your career. I think that would tie in greatly with that. 

Brett Manning  22:41
Yes. And I think we can talk for a minute about that. Sometimes your end goal is not to be a totally independent artist. You want a minor label deal—an indie record label deal. Those give you a lot more freedom. Sometimes you’re touring in small places that hold 100–150 people and you’re not making any money. You’ve got the minivan and you’re going around the country. 

23:08
You’ve been in some of those situations. And you’ve been flown out for gigs. It’s really nice. You go out to LA, you play, and you come home. That’s really nice and cushy. Those are different levels of careers. You’ve literally played in stadiums, and you’ve played in little, small, tiny, crap venues. Some with me. Crap venues. And you do that and they all contribute to what you eventually should do and what you want to do.

Dustin Small  23:35
Every show should be Yankee Stadium to you. You’ve got to treat it the same way.

Brett Manning  23:43
If you’re looking for that career for which you want a major label deal, you need to have a major label voice, and you need to build your career. You have to be a certain age. That’s unfortunate. But guess what? If you build your career and you’re not a 17-year-old girl who just graduated high school early and you can play four instruments and you’re drop-dead gorgeous and everybody loves you, you could still have that career. The same thing with Ed Cash. He’s almost 50 and he just signed his first record deal.

Dustin Small  24:15
Yes. There are exceptions to the rule, for sure. But it all has to do with the workflow, your work ethic, and the niche you are choosing to explore at that time. It’s nice to sit here and talk about all the ways that you could contribute to the music industry and hopefully get something back in return for it, but if you haven’t picked your lane to stay in… It’s throwing darts at the wall and hoping that something sticks. You’ve got to specialize in something eventually, but it is a great idea, in general, to try as many things as possible. As long as you’ve given yourself enough room for failure, which we’ve talked about before, it’s okay. It’s part of the process. 

24:58
But yes, eventually you need to land on something that you are known for. This helps create more buzz for what you do. They’re like: “Oh yes, I know that person. They’ve done this. I know somebody who said they did this with them. I don’t know what they’re working on right now, but” blah, blah, blah. No. So and so “is great at” X, Y, or Z. If you can do X, Y, and Z, that’s great. But it’s great to have a thing.

Brett Manning  25:23
Wow, you just said something that triggered a lot of thoughts. The thing you want to be known for. I texted Leah McHenry this summer and I said, “Look, I’ve been just writing tons.” And I said: “I’m trying to pick my direction. What do I do?” And she just texted me this: “What do you want to be known for?” I went: “Wow! What do I want to be known for?” 

25:51
And you know my mission in life—you know about that—that everything is leading to one great, big, more noble desire that I don’t want to make public until it’s done. But the noble desire is what you hope to be recognized for. But if it’s “I just want to be famous,” why don’t you, while you’re in the process, just say, “I would really like cancer”?—because it’s kind of the same thing. Fame is a disease. It’s a sickness. You don’t want that. Notoriety is fine. Respect. Success. Chase the career or chase the art—you’re okay. Chase fame—you’re dead already. 

26:38
You will do anything and everything if you want fame. You will compromise everything that you hold dear. I know. I’ve seen it again and again. There are artists that I look at and say, “This person is a shadow of who they were.” They’re not even a shadow. There’s no resemblance to the former person and the glitzed and glammed artist who has now allowed themselves to be transformed into the image of their maker. And we’re not talking about being made in the image of God. Made in the image of fraud. 

Dustin Small  27:20
Yes. And I’m sure several people can list off a handful of examples. They say, “Well, this person’s had a 20-year career,” or a 30-year career, “and we’re all talking about them still to this day. And they’re uber-famous” or whatever. What you don’t see is the work that they’ve continued to put in—we talked about the process earlier—over that 20-year career that’s allowed them to stay relevant. It’s not: “I’ve reached fame. I’ve reached the limelight.” It’s: “What are they doing behind closed doors that’s ensuring that they can stay in that spot?”

Brett Manning  27:59
And for every ten artists that have had that long, successful mega career, eight of them are telling horror stories about their careers. Eight out of ten will tell you, “I wish I would have had a simpler life.” I have one country artist who has a big farm, a big ranch in Kentucky, who said: “I just wish I could sing again.” I helped him get his voice back and he got another number one hit and it was really cool. He got his health back. But he said: “I want to sing, but I don’t care about the big stage anymore.” 

28:31
This guy had done some really great things. He has a lot of number ones. And he said: “I want to be able to be with my wife and my kids and watch my grandkids and go to my private ponds”—he has several private lakes on his property—”and do a little fishing and go out and sing occasionally.” And he was able to do a little bit. But he’s pretty much done with everything because his career just wore him down. And the regrets are often greater than the rewards. So you have to measure: “Do my rewards outweigh my regrets”? When you’re value-driven in your career, you can’t lose. 

Dustin Small  29:15
Exactly. I think the main thing is defining your own success, as we mentioned earlier, picking your lane and also putting in the exact work that’s required to meet that goal day in and day out, treating it as if it were potentially the last day. 

Brett Manning  29:40
Wow. It’s a great jump-off point. Bravo.

Dustin Small  29:44
Good job, buddy.

To learn more about the world’s best vocal training programs, visit SingingSuccess.com.

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How To Phase Out Your Day Job and Start Working On Your Music Career Full Time (Part 1)

On this episode, you’ll discover how and why you must treat your craft as your day job!

Fast-Track Your Success!!

VIP Membership includes:

  • Exclusive Facebook Group
  • Interact with our vocal coaches–ask them YOUR question
  • Live warmups
  • Masterclasses and Q&As with Brett Manning and his guests
  • SS360 QuickStart Program
  • SS360 – The FULL Systematic Vocal Course
  • Vocal Hacks
  • Range Builder
  • Mastering Mix
  • Mastering Harmony
  • Mastering Vibrato
  • Vocal Therapy
  • Plus…exclusive content only found here all along the way!

You can struggle on your own, or you can get direct access to the Nashville Coaches who have launched some of the biggest names in the music industry.

Unlock Your Success

Brett Manning  00:10
Welcome to the Singing Success Show Podcast. I’m your host, Brett Manning, and this is your co-host. 

Dustin Small  00:16
Hey y’all, Dustin Small here. 

Brett Manning  00:21
What’s our topic today? What are we talking about?

Dustin Small  00:22
We’re talking about how to phase out your day job and start working on your music full-time.

Brett Manning  00:28
Oh. “Don’t quit your day job.” How many of us have heard that? Or should you quit your day job? 

Dustin Small  00:33
Stay tuned, folks. 

Brett Manning  00:35
Stay tuned. First, some shout-outs.

Dustin Small  00:37
Yes. I wanted to mention Lockeland’s billboard single release. I wanted to congratulate Lockeland on his release. 

Brett Manning  00:47
Let’s talk about Lockeland.

Dustin Small  00:48
Let’s talk about them. 

Brett Manning  00:49
It’s a really killer vocal trio. They saw me at a “Master Class” thing that I did recently here in Nashville. Lockeland came in to work with me. And now I have been working with Benny and also doing harmonies with my newest up-and-coming coach, Chase. They just had this nice, beautiful CRS performance as well as the album release. Go check them out. There’s a pretty magical blend. It’s pretty fantastic.

Dustin Small  01:18
Yes, as we’re recording this right now, this week is CRS. I actually get to be a part of a performance tomorrow, which I’m looking forward to. But there’s a lot of things going on this week that, if you’re in town, you should definitely check out. 

What else do we have? We have Olivia Lane returning from her UK tour! Congrats, Olivia!

Brett Manning  01:38
Olivia Lane works with Chanel. She was coming to our vocal retreats as well and had her life changed. If you hear her story on there, it’s pretty fantastic—the things that have happened before and since. She actually was on that song show with artists critiquing her music. They had two people who I’m connected with. One by the name of Leona Lewis. We’ll talk about her in a second. She got to critique someone who she probably didn’t know was our student.

Dustin Small  02:06
She’s phenomenal, yes. 

Brett Manning  02:09
Ryan Tedder was also on that show. I have a fun Ryan Tedder story that I may tell someday of when he used to be in Nashville. He was a roommate of a friend of mine. It’s a pretty fun story.

Dustin Small  02:19
Ryan is a creative monster genius.

Brett Manning  02:21
Oh, gosh!

Dustin Small  02:22
Yes, it’s insane. 

Brett Manning  02:24
If I could tell you the backstory, you would be blown away. But carry on. 

Dustin Small  02:27
I’d like to stay right here. Thank you very much. [laughter] But we digest. 

Brett Manning  02:34
We digest. 

Dustin Small  02:35
Speaking of Leona… 

Brett Manning  02:36
I divest. 

Dustin Small  02:38
Speaking of Leona, we heard she was seen at the debut of Emma recently, if you guys are Jane Austen fans.

Brett Manning  02:45
All the girls are going: “Emma!” [makes sound of crowd]. Jane is on the other side. She’s going, “Emma!” Hysterics. All the guys are going, “Kill me.” But deep down inside, we really do like Pride and Prejudice. It’s pretty good. I watched it alone. I think I got nine points docked from my man card for watching that alone.

Dustin Small  03:08
Yes, I was about to say, I’m going to have to take that for a minute. I’m going to come and do that. We’ll give it back later. 

Brett Manning  03:13
No, but after that, I killed something with my bare hands. 

Dustin Small  03:16
Oh good. 

Brett Manning  03:17
It was a fly, but I felt pretty good about it. 

Dustin Small  03:19
Sometimes that’s all you need, man. It’s a win.

Brett Manning  03:22
With my chopsticks.

Dustin Small  03:24
Impressive, sir. Next, wax on, wax off.

Brett Manning  03:31
Karate Kid reference for you, millennials. If you haven’t even seen the original Karate Kid, you’ve got to see it. 

Okay, phasing out our day jobs. 

Dustin Small  03:41
Yes, let’s jump right in. 

Brett Manning  03:42
Man, my college roommate, who’s become a lifelong friend, is a huge influence on me. A brilliant guy. But at that age, you tease each other a little bit. He heard me singing Prince. Prince’s: ♪ Don’t have to be beautiful… ♪ I’m up there singing “Kiss”. That’s a high song. He’s hearing me up there, and he’s trying to sleep because he’s sleeping in. And he goes up: “Man, can you stop singing like a girl? Freakin don’t quit your day job. Ugh! You’re driving me crazy.” I got mad at him, like: “You want to sleep all day? I’m going to sing. I don’t care if you like my singing or not.” And we kind of got into this argument: “Don’t quit your day job. Don’t quit your day job.” And later on, I’m teaching voice.

Dustin Small  04:32
And it became the day job.

Brett Manning  04:33
It became my day job. And he heard me singing and he was like: “I didn’t know you can sing like that.” I said: “There was nothing wrong when I was singing with Prince either. That was cool.” “I know. I can’t believe I said that to you.” I reminded him that he’d said that. He said: “I said that to you? Gosh, that was a mean thing to say.” And I’ve had a lot of people say stuff like that to me.

Dustin Small  04:55
It’s just a tool in the toolbox to be used for the right application. You’ve got to have a variety. Hammers can’t do it all, man.

Brett Manning  05:04
You also need screwdrivers. But it’s funny; we talk about these day jobs. How do you phase out? I’ve got some fun little notes. And talking about quitting your day job, should you quit your day job? What if your day job is your music? And you were talking about that yesterday, as we were having some notes.

Dustin Small  05:31
Generally, the great idea—at least these days, because it becomes harder and harder to extract money from the music industry as opposed to it taking it from you—is, I would say, don’t at first. Definitely, don’t quit your day job. I would have something in place that allows you to breathe a bit. It’s where the music can still be expression. 

06:02
We were talking about that on the last podcast—there has to be a bit of failure and a little bit of rub along the path. It’s like a checkpoint, if you will. If nothing goes wrong and we’re just blissfully walking down this path, we may have missed the right turn that was back there because we didn’t have anything to challenge our current direction. 

06:26
That being said, if your overhead is X amount of dollars and you can’t be comfortable taking a breath to relax, create, and be the artist you were meant to be, then by all means, have the day job. If you’ve got to go wait tables or hand coffee to people, you should never be ashamed of having a job.

Brett Manning  06:46
That’s right. Every job is honorable. I remember someone who wanted to work with me and I thought they needed experience to work for me as a coach. I mentioned to this person’s father that it wouldn’t hurt for her to go work at Chick-fil-A. It was like, “Chick-fil-A is so beneath me.” No, it’s not. It’s a great organization. It builds character. Those kids have amazing characters and good personalities. They learn to engage people. What’s the little thing that they say when they’re…

Dustin Small  07:20
Oh, yes. Anytime you say thank you, [like], “Hey, thanks for the honey-roasted barbecue packet that you just gave me”—that was my shameless plug, because that stuff’s amazing—they always respond with “My pleasure.” It’s a fun little game, if you want to be like that. They will always say, “My pleasure.”

Brett Manning  07:39
And then sometimes they say, “My pleasure, my treasure,” if they know you. The guy who knows me is like, “My pleasure, my treasure.” 

Dustin Small  07:46
But he made it his own thing. 

Brett Manning  07:47
Yes. It created that character. A lot of times, people don’t realize the people who do make it in the industry… And that’s weird because we say making it. It just means you’re doing it. Don’t say “make it” anymore. Say, “doing it.” You’re not making it. You’re doing it. 

Dustin Small  08:05
Yes, it’s a process; it’s not a stop.

Brett Manning  08:08
That’s right. If you aim for a particular goal, what happens is that you hit it, and you’re like a dog chasing a parked car. Now, what do I do? I got the car. I’m sitting there barking at it. You got your goal. There are a lot of people talking about a lack of satisfaction when they reach their goal. This guy got his valedictorian. He was not the smartest guy, and he eventually worked up. He had this valedictorian and he said: “I was so excited, and I got it. I went up there and I got my award. I sat down and I was like: ‘That’s it? Now what?'”

Dustin Small  08:43
Why is there the stigma of the sophomore album bombing? I think we just gave an example of that. You pushed for something for so long—whether it’s 10 years or more, like we were talking about on the last podcast—you finally get there. You’ve “made it.” Well, now what?

Brett Manning  09:06
Made it instead of doing it.

Dustin Small  09:09
Now you’ve committed to X amount of records for X amount of time with a label if you’ve chosen to go that way. And then they’re calling you, asking you to spit that second album out. And you don’t have any passion. You don’t have any angst or anything real to draw from. That probably made that first record so good, which is why it connected with so many people and why so many other different organizations wanted to work with you—because you’ve been through something. You have something to say.

Brett Manning  09:37
I love that because it reminds me of this whole thing about when the work starts: When you’re actually doing it instead of making it. You guys made a baby, you and your wife. You just had your second child. 

Dustin Small  09:54
So I’ve been told. 

Brett Manning  09:55
Yes, so I’ve been told. But it’s not like, “Now we just had a baby.” It’s like, “Now the work begins.” Now we’re going to watch these kids grow up the rest of their lives and be part of their lives in some way shape or form for a long, long time. Eventually, they’ll grow up and they’ll grow older and they’ll be on their own and that’s a different thing and you’ll transition to there. The lifespan of a kid is almost like the lifespan of a great career, like 18 to 21 years.

10:27
Faith Hills still does Vegas stuff, but she’s not really putting out a record. She hasn’t had a hit record in a long time. But she still has that career, that part-time thing. Her husband is still doing some stuff. But the average person doesn’t get that long a career and doesn’t see it like that—like you’re giving birth to a career. So making it is actually not making it; it’s doing it.

Dustin Small  10:48
Starting it.

Brett Manning  10:49
Staring it is making it and then doing it is doing it. And doing it with excellence and diligence. So just working on a thing—who cares? A lot of people are lazy and they give up before they even try. We talked about that in a past podcast. People quit before they’ve even started.

Dustin Small  11:14
Yes. Diligence is a great transition into the next point: If you are lucky enough to have made it past the period where you have to have one or two day jobs just to pay the bills and you’ve gotten the notoriety and put the time in, and a lot of people are calling you now instead of you having to pound down doors, where do you nurture the next chapter so you can make music your day job? My humble opinion is that you treat the music like your day job. There’s no difference whatsoever. 

11:52
You set an alarm. You get up with purpose. If you have an office, great. If not, take a room in your house, or if you’re rooming with someone, take a section of your room, and that is your office. You’re going to wake up with a plan every single day. You’re not going to have lunch alone, if you can help it. If you’ve got to buy lunch for somebody else, sit across, and just let them talk… 

12:15
There’s a book. We need to look up who wrote it. It’s called Never Eat Alone. That’s the main point of the entire book—to be in front of as many faces as possible and find ways that you can serve others by constantly setting aside time to commune with people, not being isolated to your bedroom. I should say we’ve all been proven wrong in that regard a few weeks ago whenever Billie Eilish mopped the floor with everybody at the Grammys with a record that she literally made in her bedroom with her brother. We’re not knocking that; I think it’s incredible. But generally speaking, in an industry town that’s built on relationships, if you’re not in front of people as much as possible daily, treating this like work and like your day job, nobody’s going to really care when you get to that point of looking left or right to figure out: “Who’s going to be there to help me with my next move?” You have to be in front of people to essentially make them care. Nobody cares until you make them care.

Brett Manning  13:21
That’s right. And nobody will care about your career as much as you do. And when you show that you care about other people, then there’s a chance they’re going to care about you. But they’re still not going to care as much as you. A lot of people are waiting for somebody to help them. Like, “Well, nobody’s helping me.”

Dustin Small  13:40
Yes, you do see that a lot. People show up and are like: “Okay, I’m here!” 

Brett Manning  13:44
Yes. I had somebody who was like, “Well, nobody’s helping me!” I said, “What are you doing? You have a brain. You’re a smart, resourceful person.”

Dustin Small  13:53
Who was the last person you helped? Who was the last person you bought lunch or coffee for?

Brett Manning  13:58
Thank you. Thank you. And when’s the last time you just got online and looked up how to work Logic, Reason, or any music software that’s cheap? GarageBand is free and there’ve been great records made on GarageBand for real. The mic doesn’t know what it’s being recorded into or where it’s being recorded. It does know that it’s in Nashville—the equipment. Quite frankly, there’s no excuse for not getting Logic. It’s like the massively upgraded version of GarageBand. You can get it for $200. And if you can’t afford $200 for recording software plus a decent little microphone—

Dustin Small  14:39
Don’t quit your day job yet. 

Brett Manning  14:40
Yes, don’t quit your day job. You’ve got much bigger problems if you can’t invest at least $1,000 in your home studio. You don’t even have to do that much—$500 will get it done. But if you can’t invest that much, again, you’re not ready to quit your day job. And you quit your day job when your day job actually becomes that thing. 

15:07
Dave Ramsey talks about gazelle intensity. A gazelle runs like 40 miles an hour and a cheetah runs 70 miles an hour. But the gazelle can outrun the cheetah. He cuts very fast. When he cuts, the cheetah will run past him. He will have to turn around at 70 miles an hour and then begin to accelerate. When he comes, he cuts again and he finally gives up. He’s like: I’m not going to catch you. 

Dustin Small  15:29
It’s too erratic, essentially.

Brett Manning  15:30
Yes, because they get exhausted very quickly.

Dustin Small  15:35
Having laser-like focus, you’re saying, is the key to drowning out the abominable dross that is the day-to-day life in general.

Brett Manning  15:47
That. And gazelle intensity is the person who will press really hard to get away from debt and get away from the place of panic where “I’m not making any money” and “I’m not doing anything.” Well, then get gazelle intensity. You can work 12 hours a day for a little while. 

16:04
You shouldn’t wear yourself out. The proverb—Solomon, who was one of the richest men who’s ever lived—says: “Do not wear yourself out to get rich.” Have the wisdom to show restraint. You’re not going to wear yourself out 12 hours a day for a little while. Then you can chill and relax. And you work diligently and wisely. You don’t spend money you haven’t earned yet. And that’s the biggest problem. I say these three rules for success in this are simply: Always do what you say you’re going to do—that’s really hard—spend less than you earn, and be generous. 

16:45
As Christians, we tithe and give to the local church, charities, and other stuff like that. As Sylvester Stallone and Sam Walton said, you can’t outgive God. You start giving and it comes back to you and you’re like, “Wow, the flow.” And sometimes I get panicky with my money and think: “I’ve got all these things I need to do and all these expenses. I’m not generous.” So I begin in that panic mode instead of just: Throw down, get tough and then follow my own rules. If I follow those three rules, I’ve always been successful when I’ve done this.

Dustin Small  17:21
Yes. The generosity brings people closer because now you’ve ended up on the radar for the right reasons. You’ve made them care about what’s going on in your world. 

Brett Manning  17:32
That’s right. 

So let’s talk about these other two. “Do you have an office yet?”

Dustin Small  17:43
You’ve got to have a space. 

Brett Manning  17:44
You’ve got to have your space. It can be in your house. It can be a rental space. For me, a lot of people know that I leave my house just to do simple work. I go to a coffee shop because, when I’m at home, I’m thinking about home.

Dustin Small  17:59
Netflix Beckons a little too often. 

Brett Manning  18:01
Yes. Things distract me there. In a coffee shop, that’s just my workflow. I like to sit there with a beautiful cup of coffee, bone broth, kombucha, or whatever. I’ve got my headphones on. I’m listening to something inspiring. I have to get myself into that mood.

18:18
There’s a difference between diligence work or just playing scales. [plays brief melody on piano] If I’m working on a piano piece [plays another brief melody on piano], I don’t have to be that inspired to play, but I have to be inspired to flow into that as a writer. I can’t always write or create something unless I have a workflow. That type of discipline and diligence is a totally different thing. 

18:54
If your entrance into the music career depends on creativity, you have to have a space for that in your life where you say, “This is the time where I have… ” I’ve said this in past podcasts and I’ll remind them again: I think I started the hashtag goddate. This is my God date in the morning. I’ve got my coffee, my organic eggs, and all my different foods. I’m listening to some Bach or Beethoven or Mozart or whatever—usually Bach and some other classical. Tchaikovsky’s “Hymn of the Cherubim” will put you in heaven in seven minutes. I’m listening to that and I’m reading something inspiring, probably the Bible or some devotional or something to inspire myself. I wait until I do that. If I don’t do that, the rest of my day just feels off. I can’t get into that flow—that workflow. 

19:44
If I just jump straight into work, I feel like it’s like, as a married man, you’re leaving home without kissing your wife goodbye. It’s like, “Hey, bye.” Really? A hug? “Love you” or whatever. I never say goodbye to my kids without them or me saying: “Love you!” “Love you, Dad!” “Love you.” Every time we’re on the phone: “Love you!” Even if I’m just going to see them in five minutes. It’s a habitual thing. You create habits that you refuse to break. When you break those habits, you feel out of sorts. 

20:20
This is why you and I have talked about this. Sometimes, vacations are great. Sometimes, they feel weird. Sometimes you need to break the flow and have a vacation, but there’s still certain habits that you have daily that you can’t follow up on on a vacation. I’m not at my favorite coffee shop, you know? “Oh my gosh, I’m in China. What do I do? I don’t have my headphones on. I don’t have anything.” I’m just talking with all these people. 

Dustin Small  20:42
Eat some General Tso’s. 

Brett Manning  20:45
General Tso’s. Then you’re eating chow mein or whatever for breakfast.
But again, get into that creative place and find a way that you can habitually get back there. 

Dustin Small  21:02
Do you schedule your creative time? 

Brett Manning  21:07
Yes and no. You can schedule time. You and I have scheduled time to write. And we write and we write well. You can do it. Sometimes it works really well and sometimes it doesn’t. You never know until you start getting into it. And sometimes three hours is enough and sometimes 30 minutes is enough. 

21:27
The reason why is because of something called Parkinson’s law, which I may have said in a past podcast. But I’ll remind you because I’m not assuming that everybody watching has seen every podcast. Parkinson’s law says that work expands to meet the time permitted. If you were studying for an exam and had two weeks to do it, but instead you crashed all night long—

Dustin Small  21:53
I’ve never done that. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Brett Manning  21:56
You’ve never done that. But it works. Your work expands. You become hyper-focused. You block out everything else. You block out all your social media. You block out all the phone calls. You don’t open up several tabs. You’ve got one thing open and you’re focusing on one thing really intensively.

Dustin Small  22:15
Yes, because, despite what a lot of people think, multitasking is not really a thing, honestly. You may be okay at doing a few things decently well, but let’s be honest, you’re going to be missing something somewhere.

Brett Manning  22:30
Yes. The ultimate multitask is when you realize you have a bunch of tasks and compartmentalize your mind. You’re like: “Okay, over there.” [makes pushing-away motion with hand] It’s like in the movies, like the Minority Report, where they have the computer screen in the air and he moves it—

Dustin Small  22:46
I was thinking J.A.R.V.I.S. But yes, that’s a good one too. 

Brett Manning  22:48
Yes, all those. They move these things over. You take that in your mind and you go, “Over there.” And it’s in your notes. You’re on your phone, a notepad, or whatever and you say: “I refuse to look at these until I’ve done this.” 

23:02
The dog who chases two rabbits catches neither one. And the person who gave me that quote was a guy chasing about five rabbits and caught, maybe, one of them eventually. 

Dustin Small  23:14
So he knew from experience.

Brett Manning  23:15
Yes. But he was still doing it. He was telling me, “Don’t chase two rabbits,” and I was like, “How many rabbits are you chasing?” “Well, a lot” because he couldn’t turn down opportunities. 

23:32
In our last podcast, you said a really great hook and I thought, “That’s great.” I wrote it down immediately. “You can choose your creative time, but you can’t always choose to be creative.” So, when creativity hits you, take advantage of it. I’ve been in the middle of a lesson and said to somebody—after scale, I’ve been sitting here thinking about an idea—”Can you hold on a second? This is a 50-minute lesson. We’ll just give you the full hour, but I’m going to take three minutes here and just play this before I forget.” They said, “Yes, cool.”

Brett Manning  24:06
And sometimes it’s happened at the end of the lesson—there wasn’t a lesson after—that they said: “Hey, can I write with you?—because I like what you wrote.” “Yes, what was your idea?” “Well, with ‘Poppy’.” [plays brief melody on piano] When she heard this, she goes: “That just reminds me, like, what if? Just what if? What would have happened if I just… ” And that’s all she kept saying: “What would have happened if… It just sounds like that.” Right after I listened to her, I said: 

♪ What if I’d driven around the block, to waste a couple of ticks on the clock ♪

And she goes, “Or maybe ‘decided not to stop.'”

♪ What if I decided not to stop, you would have never entered my thoughts ♪

Then I said: 

♪ What if I found someone else, would I have the void that only you could help ♪

25:11
Almost as fast as I’m playing it, we wrote that song. Or maybe, “met you on a different day, would I’ve looked at you some other way?” It came so fast. 

25:21
“Already Mine” came so fast. You played the thing. 

♪ Excuse me if I’m too bold ♪ 

What a great opening line. You had that line, though. You said, “Excuse me if I’m too bold, but you’re the force that shakes me up.” I was like, “That’s pretty good.” 

Dustin Small  25:39
But that speaks to the process and the fact that you were comfortable enough to invite me into that process because of the repetitions. It’s been done so much in that environment that you were comfortable with it. You were in your office. You were in your space of work. You already knew what it took to be productive in that environment. And that’s huge, I think.

Brett Manning  26:07
It is. But also remember for everybody watching this, you have these workspaces, do not be afraid to say, “Siri, open up my voice memo.” She’ll do it for you. You don’t have to look at her. Siri, “Open my voice memo,” and then you start recording.

Dustin Small  26:31
She’s a good employee.

Brett Manning  26:32
She really comes through for us. And then you start talking. Or you wait until you have a stop light and start it. Boom. And you set it down here and you just start waxing eloquent.

26:44
I wrote a song called “Beautiful Redemption” about three months ago. Literally, I rattled off this stream of consciousness for five straight minutes. When I was done, I was like: “Wow, there are more lyrics than what I need for the song.”

Dustin Small  27:00
Yes, that’s generally what you want too, because stuff’s going to end up not working out at times. Don’t get stuck on something.

Brett Manning  27:07
That’s right. But if you get a steady flow of creativity, don’t interrupt it. Don’t shoot yourself in the foot and say, “I’ve got other things to do.” No. You don’t get to choose when those moments come. You get to choose to try to bring about that moment. But if the moment hits you, respond to it.

27:31
This is one of my favorite Mitch Hedberg jokes. And you’ve got to say it like Mitch, because he’s talking like this. [does impersonation] You know, like a hippie stoner guy. A funny dude. He said: “I write jokes for a living. I get my best inspiration when I’m asleep, so I keep a pen and paper by my bed. Sometimes I wake up and think of something funny, but the pen is at the other side of the room. And I think, ‘The joke probably wasn’t that funny.'”

Dustin Small  27:56
[laughter] [coughs] It got me choked up.

Brett Manning  27:59
And the reason that should inspire laughter immediately is because we’ve all done that, man! We’d be like: “I have this idea. I’m too lazy. My phone’s way over there. I don’t want to write this down.” And I’ve done that too. Before I woke up, I would dream of hearing a song in my sleep. And sometimes I’m sitting here and I mumble the song. I think: “This wasn’t very good.” When I wake up in the morning, I listen. I think: “Wow, when I woke up, it sounded good.” There’s a song called “More” that I recorded a little bit. I heard most of it in my sleep. I woke up and wrote the whole same thing. 

Dustin Small  28:39
Wow. 

Brett Manning  28:41
Wow,  you need some more water. Oh, here’s a little hint. Go like this: [makes gulping sound with throat] “Gulp.” [makes several more gulping sounds with throat]

Dustin Small  28:47
[makes gulping sound with throat] Gulp. [makes several more gulping sounds with throat]

Brett Manning  28:51
It’s a little thing I did in this vocal hack thing that we’re doing. 

Dustin Small  28:53
Oh, it’s already better. 

Brett Manning  28:54
Yes. It feels weird, huh? It can make your eyes water if you get that little tickle in your throat. I had a kid who was a big athlete. A big buff dude. He was doing the exercise and his voice slipped a little bit. And all of a sudden, tears fell down his face. He goes, “Why am I crying?” I said: “You’re not. It’s just that that tickle creates that watery eye feeling. It simulates an allergy.”

Dustin Small  29:15
And we know nothing of that in Nashville. 

Brett Manning  29:16
Nothing, no. This is the allergy capital of the country. Not New York, New York; Nashville, Nashville. If you can make it in Nashville, you can make it anywhere because it’s the allergy capital. I know people who have been here for six or seven years and are still having allergy attacks. Some people who’ve been here for 20 years are still having allergy attacks. I have finally overcome this city. I have conquered you. You cannot cause allergies anymore. [does impersonation] “But easy. After 20 years. Of course.” [does different impersonation] 

Dustin Small  29:43
And we’re back, folks. 

Brett Manning  29:47
So you… 

Dustin Small  29:49
So regarding our day jobs. 

Brett Manning  29:50
So you can translate over to your day job if you can actually get a job in the industry that is doing what you want to do. A lot of people work in studios as interns. You’re free labor. But then the person says, “I like how you work.” Come and intern for me if you’re a hard worker. If you’re not, I’m not going to like you. I’ll fire you if you’re a bad intern. I will. Quick. “Fire me? But I’m free.” You cost me emotional energy, bro, sis, whoever you are. If you are coming to intern for me and you are lazy, you are taking up space. 

Dustin Small  30:31
You’ve got to love the work.

Brett Manning  30:33
Yes. But I’ve hired people who started out as interns. I’ve hired people who just started out as consultants. One of the top people in the company right now came in. She helped us with some social media. I said: “You’re really good. I’d love to have you as kind of a CEO type thing.” She’s grinning because she’s off-camera right now. 

30:56
And here’s the rule—and we can put this in the notes down below—power flows to those who take responsibility. Do you remember Jesse back in the day? He became CEO because he was taking responsibility. Now, he had other passions and ambitions and I had to let him do those things. It was a good mutual thing for him to go do production. And he’s a worship leader. 

Dustin Small  31:29
Yes, we ended up working together afterward.

Brett Manning  31:32
Yes. He’s fantastic. What a great musician. He actually played on my record as well. 

Dustin Small  31:36
I played on some of his productions as well. 

Brett Manning  31:39
Yes, he’s fantastic and brilliant. But he was taking responsibility at the company. I said: “Well, you’re doing more work than everybody else. So welcome. I’d like to give you this job position.” And then he’s not quitting his day job. 

31:53
And if your day job resembles your music, it could either hurt you—and you know this—or kill you, because then you get burned out. For some of y’all, you don’t need to do music for more than two hours a day. And we’re going to talk about that in an upcoming podcast about what type of career you want. 

Dustin Small  32:13
Being laser-focused on that.

Brett Manning  32:15
Yes. It’s probably a good jump-off point unless you have anything to add to that.

Dustin Small  32:18
No, I think it’s wrapped up with a nice little bow on it. 

Great job, Brett!

To learn more about the world’s best vocal training programs, visit SingingSuccess.com.

Welcome to the Singing Success Show podcast! I’m your host Brett Manning, and joining me today is co-host Dustin Small. In this episode, we’ll be discussing how to transition from your day job to working on your music full-time. Many of us have heard the advice “don’t quit your day job,” but should you actually quit? We’ll explore this topic and share some shout outs to talented musicians like Lachlan, an amazing vocal trio, and Olivia Lane, who recently returned from a UK tour.

We also discuss the importance of having a dedicated workspace for your music career. Whether it’s an office, a rented space, or even a section of your room, having a designated area where you can focus on your music is essential. Treating your music like a day job means setting goals, being disciplined, and creating a routine that allows for creativity and productivity.

We emphasize the value of being diligent and putting in the necessary effort to succeed in the music industry. This includes showing up, engaging with others, and being generous with your time and resources. Building relationships and making connections is crucial, as nobody will care about your music as much as you do. We also discuss the concept of “making it” versus “doing it” and the importance of finding satisfaction and purpose in the journey itself.

We share insights on phasing out your day job and the importance of financial stability before making the leap. It’s essential to have a plan and the means to sustain yourself while pursuing your music career. This might mean having a part-time job or finding other sources of income that allow you the freedom to focus on your music.

Additionally, we talk about the creative process and the importance of seizing creative moments when they come. Whether it’s during a scheduled writing session or an unexpected burst of inspiration, it’s crucial to take advantage of these moments and let your creativity flow. We also highlight the need to be flexible and not get stuck on certain ideas or expectations.

In conclusion, transitioning from a day job to a full-time music career requires dedication, discipline, and careful planning. Treating your music like a day job, building relationships, and nurturing your creativity are all essential aspects of this journey. Remember that success is not just about “making it,” but also finding fulfillment in the process and embracing the opportunities that come your way.

If you are coming to intern for me and you are lazy, you are gone. But if you’re a hard worker, if you’re diligent, then there’s a chance that you could eventually be employed and make that your day job. So intern, get your foot in the door, learn the industry, learn the ins and outs, and if you prove yourself, you might have an opportunity to transition into a full-time career in music.

Another aspect to consider is networking. Networking is crucial in the music industry. Connect with people, build relationships, collaborate with other musicians, attend industry events, and put yourself out there. The more people you meet and the more connections you make, the greater your chances of finding opportunities and advancing your music career. Don’t be afraid to reach out and offer your skills and services to others. By being proactive and building a strong network, you increase your chances of phasing out your day job and working on your music full-time.

Now, let’s talk about persistence. Making music your full-time job requires persistence and resilience. It’s not an easy journey, and there will be challenges and setbacks along the way. But if you’re truly passionate about your music and dedicated to pursuing your dreams, you must persevere. Keep honing your skills, improving your craft, and pushing forward even in the face of adversity. Remember, success rarely happens overnight. It takes time, effort, and a lot of hard work.

Lastly, financial stability is crucial when considering transitioning to a full-time music career. Before quitting your day job, ensure that you have a solid financial plan in place. Evaluate your income and expenses, create a budget, and save up enough money to sustain yourself during the transition period. This financial stability will provide you with the freedom and peace of mind to focus on your music without worrying about immediate financial pressures.

In summary, phasing out your day job and transitioning to a full-time music career requires careful planning, hard work, networking, persistence, and financial stability. It’s a journey that takes time and dedication, but if you’re passionate about your music and willing to put in the effort, you can make it a reality. So don’t quit your day job right away, but instead, take strategic steps to build your music career and create opportunities for yourself. Good luck on your musical journey!